I thought this was an excellent video in which Sam Storms answers this question: If we believe in the continuation of all spiritual gifts, should we pursue them?
Posted in Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Sam Storms, video
Tagged Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Sam Storms, video
by Scott
In the past, I have addressed four major passages of Scripture that cessationists might typically use to discount the continuation of all gifts of the Spirit following the first century (or sometime there abouts). Those four passages are:
In my article, I specifically showed how I believe these four passages are, often times, misunderstood and misused by cessationists to teach that there was an expectation in the first century that certain gifts (supernatural gifts or miraculous gifts or sign gifts) were to cease as we moved toward the full and faithful teaching of the first apostles now recorded in the New Testament.
I don’t say these words – misunderstood or misused – arrogantly. Yet, I still believe that if we read the passages carefully and fully consider what they are teaching, we will see that none of these four give solid ground for the case of cessationism.
Of course, there are other passages that could be dealt with from a cessationist standpoint (i.e. Ephesians 2:20 – that apostles and prophets were foundation layers and we no longer need a foundation to be laid since it was laid once for all time in the first century). But I decided to mainly focus on those four passages, though I have addressed the Ephesians 2 verse in another article.
But, while, at times, it is good to address how another viewpoint utilises certain passages, it is also quite healthy to lay out Scripture passages that would support one’s own specific view. So we don’t just take up the ‘polemical approach’ or addressing what we consider wrong, but we also take up the ‘apologetic approach’ in confirming what is true.
I’m not talking about moulding passages to fit our view, though it is easy to fall into that trap here and there (and I’m sure I could be accused with the form four passages and what I will address in just a moment in this post). But we can’t just defend against another view. We have to make sure Scripture actually teaches what we believe it teaches.
Thus, there are four major passages I would like to point out that I believe give a positive case for the existence of all spiritual gifts from Christ’s first advent to second advent. Those four passages are:
John 14:12
These words in John 14 are well-known, at least to most charismatics and Pentecostals:
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
I don’t want to spend an immense time on this passage, as my partner in crime, Marv, has done fine exegesis on it here. But I will share a few of my own thoughts.
I know that for many, this passage can merely be put down to talking about doing more evangelism, reaching more people than the one Christ could in His incarnation. And while I absolutely support such a notion, I would argue that to say it only speaks of that is a bit reductionistic. It misses the bigger picture
I believe this statement entails all of the works of Christ. He simply meant it that way. I love the first words of Luke in Acts 1:1:
In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach.
Christ, in His incarnation, had only begun to do and to teach. There was a lot more work to accomplish. A lot more! Hence, the Father and Son had this great plan to send the Spirit to indwell all of God’s people to empower them to do the works that Jesus did. It’s absolutely astounding that Christ Himself would want His body, in the power of His Spirit, to continue the works He did.
Of course, this is not limited to gifts of the Spirit as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. Nor is this just about miracles and healings. It is about that. But not only about that, just as it was not only about evangelism.
And Jesus said these wonderful words, ‘whoever believes in me’. That’s challenging, but a good challenge for us who are believers. The works of Jesus, in all their variety, which includes miracles and healings and prophecy, are available to the Spirit-indwelt and Spirit-empowered body of Christ. There is no denying this or reducing this. All of the works of Christ are available to all of the body of Christ, not just the spiritually elite nor the spiritually elite of 1900 years ago.
Acts 2:17-18
I love Acts 2:17-18, where, at Pentecost, Peter quotes Joel’s prophetic words from centuries before:
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
After the Spirit had fallen on the 120 like never seen or known before, Peter has a revelation: This is the fulfilment of Joel’s words spoken so long ago. Joel said that, in the last days, God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh. This was happening right in front of eyes and ears as these tongues of fire descend and these new tongues are spoken.
The last days had just been initiated way back then. This was not to be some few final years of planet earth. The last days began some 1977 years ago at that great Pentecost.
What was the fruit of this outpouring?
That God’s people would become of prophetic community. Oh sure, God would continue to have those specifically gifted as prophets (1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11; etc). But from now on, during the last days of the Messianic age when Messiah would reign over all heaven and earth, God’s Spirit would allow all of God’s people to be utlitised in the prophetic. Moses had longed for it (Numbers 11:24-30), but this was the beginning of the prophethood of all believers, as I’ve written about before.
This work of the Spirit would break all gender barriers and age barriers: sons and daughters; young men and old men; male servants and female servants.
Because the last days are the entire age from Pentecost onwards (or we might technically say first advent of Christ to second advent), we must expect God’s people to always function as a prophetic community. This includes revelations, prophecies, visions, dreams, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, etc. None of this has to be leather bound and added to the New Testament, and thankfully Scripture stands as a measuring stick of whether such prophetic action is truly of God today. But there is no doubt that the last days are to be a continuing work of Jesus by the prophetic Spirit amongst His church in the world.
1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
For an in depth look at my thoughts on this passage, I would encourage you to read this article. But, suffice it to say, the ‘perfect’ of this passage is not the completed New Testament canon. I believe the New Testament canon is the God-breathed Word. I’m not into backing away from that reality. But the perfect that Paul speaks about in this passage was not the awaiting of the New Testament.
He was awaiting the perfect One, the perfect ending, where we would see ‘face to face’ and we would ‘know fully, even as [we] have been fully known’. This is quite obviously talking about the final consummation of all things when Christ brings the fullness of His kingdom.
Thus, prophecies and tongues and [words of] knowledge (vs8) have not yet been done away with.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
I’ve personally been doing a very long series for the past few months on apostles today and what all that entails, of which I have posted about 17 articles already over at The Prodigal Thought. You can click here for the first one or do a search on the category sidebar of my blog for ‘apostles’ or ‘apostles today’.
But, at least from the perspective of the ministry of the prophet in this passage, we are told some very helpful information about the enduring nature of that ministry. We are told that Jesus has given these five (or some argue for four) ministries spoken of in Ephesians 4:11 to help equip God’s people to do the work of ministry. They are equippers of the body so that the body can get on with the work of Christ. And I wonder what work(s) Paul had in mind? Possibly the works of Christ, going back to John 14:12.
But vs13 of Ephesians 4 is very important here. It tells us about the duration of these gifts: until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
Well, I think everyone could easily agree that we are not there yet. The word ‘until’ denotes we are headed that way. But we all know we have not reached the point. And we might not be as far along as we had hoped after 1900 years.
Hence, Jesus still gives all five of these ministries. Not just shepherds or evangelists or teachers, though they provide a necessary part. But all five to help equip us and prepare us to move towards the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God. Prophets (and apostles also) are still needed. Again, it doesn’t mean we are to add a new book to the Bible and call it 2 Romans or 1 Chicago. But we need their ministry to help equip us. And prophets will be very helpful in seeing the body formed into the prophetic community we have been called to, for Joel (and Peter) prophesied of the prophetic community of this new covenant age.
Therefore, I believe this ministry is absolutely vital until we reach that place of unity in the faith and become mature, reaching the full stature of Christ. I would even argue that we would be found somewhat lacking if we do not allow for this ministry in our midst, just as we would be found lacking without shepherds, teachers and evangelists.
Thus, these are four very strong passages that have helped me realise that Jesus still desires that all the gifts be utilised in the present age as He reigns at the right hand of the Father. I don’t want to put my eggs solely in the basket of miracles, healings, prophecy, tongues, etc. But I do want those gifts to be a few of the eggs that go in the ‘full basket’ of what Christ has called His body to by the empowering of the Spirit.
All I can say is this provides for both an exciting and challenging move forward in seeing the kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. I’m up for such an exciting challenge.
by Scott
There are a lot of strange things that happen in this world. Our televisions, newspapers, magazines, radio and internet help remind us of this. Such things not only happen in ‘the world’, but they also happen amongst Christians. Again, televisions, newspapers, magazines, radio and internet help remind us of this reality.
And sometimes it hurts. It can really hurt!
And the branch of the church that can easily get hit with this is the charismatic-Pentecostal branch. We have a lot to be ashamed of and apologise for.
Such strange occurrences in charismatic and Pentecostal circles are highlighted in places like Hank Hanegraaff’s book, Counterfeit Revival. This book was handed to me by my college pastor (and friend) from my former Baptist church back when I was first entering into a charismatic church. As someone new to the gifts of the Spirit, at least from the 1 Corinthians 12 sense, this book did scare me a little. Not a big fear, but questions did arise.
Roaring like lions, slain in the Spirit, Holy Ghost bartenders, holy laughter?!
Some ten or eleven years later, I’m at a place where nothing really surprises me or catches me off guard anymore. I still shake my head at some things that I see on ‘Christian television’, but there is not much shock value anymore.
Even more, what I have come to realise over the past decade is that strangeness does not disqualify something as being from God.
Some will continue to point out the strange happenings in the Pentecostal and charismatic churches. And I agree, some of it is just plain weird and shameful. But, again, strangeness does not automatically determine that something is not of God.
I’ve written before on the scandalous nature of God (post 1, post 2, post 3). But let me just list a few weird activities found in Scripture:
My goal is not to say that things must be strange, nor to glorify strange occurrences. Such is unnecessary, even unhealthy. But my point is to show that strangeness does not mean that something is ungodly or evil.
I know that a lot of these activities is equated with emotionalism. We live in a day and age, and have for a while, where emotions are seen as weak. Any show of emotions and it is automatically assumed that something is ‘wrong’. So, someone cries out in a gathering or begins to laugh out loud and the action is branded as emotionalism, or even worse, of the flesh or of the devil.
Of course, such could be. I’ve seen it before. It’s worse when such has been manipulatively contrived. And I believe responsible leaders will approach the person(s) and graciously instruct them. If it carries on, a godly firmness might need to be employed.
But I don’t believe we need to be so scared of emotions, or strange occurrences. As Jack Deere points out in his book Surprised by the Power of the Spirit – We are more willing to give the devil the ability to deceive us than God to work amongst us. Specifically, he states:
‘I frequently encounter Christians who have no difficult at all in believing that demons can speak in an audible voice, prompt thoughts, produce physical sensations and other bodily effects, but they don’t believe God can or would do these things today. Anytime they see one of these physical manifestations, therefore, they automatically assume that it is a work of the devil.’
But the testimony of Scripture itself is that God can do and does do strange things at times. This is not THE characteristic of God’s acts, but His acts are, at times, characterised by strangeness.
In the end, a large portion of Christians do not like the idea of subjectivity. For something to be objective, this means it is factual and, thus, not influenced by opinion or feeling. An objective statement would be that I wear glasses. It’s a fact (and you would know if you could see my face right now). Another objective fact is that I live in Belgium. These statements are true fact. They really cannot be disputed
So, for many Christians, we stand on the objectivity of the Scripture, since we can be certain of the God-breathed nature of it and that it is truly God’s revelation. But this cannot be established through subjective experiences, which can simply boil down to a person’s feelings or opinion, rather than what is real and true. So, a prophecy could be of God or it could be either someone’s personal feelings or even a false prophecy. Subjectiveness creates a quagmire.
And I’ll just be completely honest. It would be much easier to cast off all subjective experiences, bodily manifestations and the notion that God still speaks today. It would be much more simple for me, as a pastor, to say it’s all found in the Scripture and, therefore, everything else is subject to extreme scrutiny. I’d be saved from a lot of awkward situations (or awkward situations for the congregation). I’d be saved from a lot of, ‘I believe the Lord is telling me to….,’ when I know that is just a bit out of bounds, yet I don’t have a Scripture to quote to bury the suggestion.
I’m not saying that every cessationist chooses to hold to cessationism because of the possible awkardness or false manifestations that could appear. I’m simply noting that, for practical purposes, I know it would be easier to move towards cessationism.
But I also know it would be much easier to join the Roman Catholic church where everything is dogmatically defined for me already. There seems even less room for subjectivity than in evangelical cessationism. But I’m not sure that is God’s desire.
And I am not sure it’s God’s desire that we lay aside all subjective experiences for the sake of ease. I love to be in control. Really I do. Ask my wife. But I’m willing to let go of control of this one. And He does promise that when these things are truly stirred by Him, they are for the common good and edification of His people (1 Corinthians 12:7; 14:3-5). Not too mention how true activity of spiritual gifts glorifies Jesus and can draw people to Jesus.
I know a favourite verse to combat subjective experiences is found in 1 Corinthians 14:33:
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
This verse is par excellence in the rhetoric of many cessationists. And I don’t want to disregard it. I don’t even want to deal with it flippantly. But can I make a couple of suggestions:
1) This is one verse in the midst of a whole tenor of Scripture. Can I not keep this verse in connection with the other examples I listed in the bullet points above? Examples where God did some strange things?
2) It is amazing how true works of the Spirit bring peace out of confusion. One person is uncontrollably weeping over their ungodly practice of sin. Weeks later they are walking in fruitfulness and godliness not known before in their life. That’s a work of the Spirit.
Listen, please know I am not wanting to put all my eggs in the basket of strange and subjective experiences. I don’t want to glorify them, as they are not THE point and not THE determining factor of the real work of God. But they are also not THE determining factor of what is NOT of God.
I would challenge us to be open to the expression of the emotions. Check out the beauty of the Psalms. I’d ask us to allow for strange occurrences, not as the template, but as acceptable and possibly coming from God. Weigh these experiences with Scripture and amongst godly leadership. But don’t just make a judgment from the get go. Give time. Allow for fruit, for not all fruit comes forth in 3 minutes.
In all, allow for the work of the Holy Spirit via the activity of all His gifts. It will be a blessing in the end, even if some people get their panties in a wad (or knickers in a twist) and head out the door. Jesus is the great shepherd of His sheep, not the few that might get offended. He will be faithful to build His church. Jesus is much more faithful to lead than Satan is to deceive.
Posted in experience, God speaking, strange, subjectivity
Tagged experience, God speaking, strange, subjectivity
By Marv
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)
This is an astounding statement. If overfamiliarity with it has dulled its impact, mull it over a while and let it sink in. Jesus spoke these words as part of the farewell instructions he gave to the eleven (after the departure of Judas) during supper the night before He died. Prefixing it by “Truly, truly, I say to you…,” He intended this statement to be taken seriously, and we would do well to pay careful attention to it.
We have ways, though, of mitigating its force. One is by focusing on the second part, the “greater works” Jesus says we will do. “That just means we will evangelize far more people than Jesus ever did” is the comeback. The way this works is that “greater works” can be “greater” in some way—without being the same works that Jesus did. Yet “the works that I do” allow for no dodge from Jesus’ clear intent.
Nor can we take His words as being for the apostles alone. Apart from the fact that He told them to teach us to do everything He had commanded them (Matt. 28:20), Jesus opens the door wide: “whoever believes in me…” Where have we seen this phrase before?
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:38-39)
Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. (John 11:25-26)
“Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. (John 12:44-46)
Now, what are the “works” Jesus is referring to? He makes this clear in the immediately preceding verses:
The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. (John 14:10-11)
The works were the works of God, which Jesus did under the Father’s authority, and they were such that even if one was not convinced by Jesus’ words, His works were reason enough to believe. These were acts through which the Father manifested Himself on the earth, glorified Himself. As the John 12:44-46 citation above shows Jesus’ works led ultimately to belief in the Father by making visible the invisible: “whoever sees me sees him who sent me.” And Jesus repeats this very point in this chapter: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” (v. 9)
Why? Because, as Jesus said “I am in the Father and the Father is in me.” (v. 10) With His farewell instructions He is extending the chain:
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me. (John 13:20)
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. (John 14:20)
The works are those through which God makes visible His character and His nature, to which the world is blind. If this is not clear enough, Jesus explains:
Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. (vv. 13-14)
This is all quite astounding, if we will dare to believe it. It is difficult not to qualify this promise, to discount it somehow, because we’ve tried it and have come to the conclusion that there must be some fine print somewhere. There is no fine print, but we have to pay attention to His words. He says it twice; “in my name.”
This is not a tag phrase for our prayers. It means acting under His authority, as He acted under His Father’s authority. Recall what He has just said: “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.” (v. 10). Jesus was sent and acted in the Father’s name (John 5:43). We are sent and are to act in Jesus’ name, and it is only by virtue of the ongoing dynamic connection with Him that we do His works, that His promise of “anything” has force. It involves acting under His orders, and if we do not understand that this involves an open channel of communication with Him, through the Spirit, then this promise of prayer, and indeed, any ministry “in His name” ceases to have power.
And all this, Jesus says, “because I am going to the Father.” How is that? His departure brings an end to one phase of His ministry, and His departure begins another, and that will happen at Pentecost: “if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you.” (John 16:7). “Because I am going to the Father” means then “because the Holy Spirit will come as the Helper.”
Some of the works that he did, such as prophecy, which we examined in a previous post in this series (John 13: Jesus and Prophecy), are what we would label as “miraculous.” But there is no dividing line here between these and works of compassion or preaching the word, which Jesus also did. He did all that He was sent by the Father to do, including living out God’s love and displaying His character, as well as “mighty works.”
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. (Acts 10:38)
Since Pentecost, each believer has been anointed with the Holy Spirit and with power, and we are sent as well, with specific works to do:
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2:10)
And these manifest God’s light to the world to bring Him glory:
Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. (Matt. 5:16)
The best of us carries out our assigned works so imperfectly, so fallibly, it truly is a wonder that God has ordained to use believers in this way to bring glory to Himself. Yet he has. The power is there, in the indwelling Holy Spirit, but we must grow in our willingness and in our ability to manifest this power, whether it is living a godly life, speaking words of prophecy, or effectively praying healing for the sick.
So from this passage I conclude:
Posted in continuationism, Holy Spirit, John 13-17, miracles, Power, prophecy
Tagged apostles, disciples, Holy Spirit, Jesus, works
by Scott
Yesterday, John Piper posted an article of interest at his blog, Desiring God. He starts about by reminding us of nine different points to remember about spiritual gifts:
1. God wants us to know about spiritual gifts.
“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed” (1 Corinthians 12:1).
2. Objective truths about Jesus govern subjective spiritual experiences.
“No one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says ‘Jesus is accursed!’ and no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except in the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:3).
3. Different Christians have different spiritual powers given to them by the Holy Spirit.
“There are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:4).
4. For example, these different spiritual powers include the following:
“Wisdom . . . knowledge . . . faith . . . healing . . . miracles . . . prophecy . . . ability to distinguish between spirits . . . tongues . . . interpretation of tongues” (1 Corinthians 12:8-10).
5. The Spirit of God is sovereign over when and to whom he gives such powers.
“All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills” (1 Corinthians 12:11).
6. The aim of all the gifts is the common good of the church.
“To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good” (1 Corinthians 12:7).
7. The variety of gifts is like the variety of our body parts, such as eye and ear, hand and foot.
“For the body does not consist of one member but of many” (1 Corinthians 12:14).
8. Therefore, if a spiritual power is not used, it’s like the human body not hearing.
“If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? (1 Corinthians 12:17).
9. Therefore, we should avail ourselves of the spiritual powers God gives us through others.
“The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I have no need of you’” (1 Corinthians 12:21).
But then Piper looks to specifically connect these truths with the reality of unanswered prayer. He lists some realities of why our prayers might go unanswered, yet he then shares some thoughts on a reason we may have never considered:
But here is a reason we may not think of very often. God may intend to give us the blessing we long for not directly in answer to prayer, but indirectly in answer to prayer—through the spiritual gifting of another believer. And the reason we don’t receive the blessing is that we don’t avail ourselves of the power God intends to channel through the gifts of his people.
Yes, the gifts of God are given for ‘the common good’ (1 Corinthians 12:7) and for building up the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 14:26). Paul even challenges us to ‘strive to excel in building up the church’ (1 Corinthians 14:12).
So, whatever the gift, let us build one another up, and who knows, as Piper points out, that ministry expression through the spiritual gift might just be the answer to our petitions before God.
Posted in Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, John Piper, prayer
Tagged Desiring God, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, John Piper, prayer
 | Best Johnd on Four Questions For Worship… |
 | Derek D on The Prophetic Body of Chr… |
 | Wade Strickland on The Church Did Not Begin at… |
 | benio84 on Four Scriptures From Cess… |
 | Wayne Shaffer on The Pneuma Review & Craig… |
To Be Continued... 