Category Archives: Gifts

I’m not Charismatic, either, Michael. (Response to CMP, part 1)

Posted on May 27, 2010 by | 11 comments

By Marv

This post is part of a series responding to C. Michael Patton’s eight-part series at Parchment and Pen “Why I am Not Charismatic,” which is also conveniently available for download as a single e-book here.  This is in response to part one.

 

Michael,

Glad we could have this chat.  You know, Paul warns us against wrangling about words, but your first post was mainly geared toward setting some definitions.  So I think we’d better start with some of the terminology.

1. First of all, “Charismatic.”  Looks like we’re going to get tangled up there.  You seem to want to use this as a blanket term, the way I’d use “Continuationist.”  Trouble is, it isn’t a blanket term.  It’s a reference to a specific movement, circa mid-20th century, and adherents of that movement.  Now you might think it ought to refer to any non-cessationists, for etymological reasons, and you might even hear folk using it that way, but I can’t agree.

First of all, early in the 20th century the Pentecostal movement sprang up, and as far as I know they did not refer to themselves as Charismatics, even though they’d fit your definition. 

They had other distinctions, a particular doctrine about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, a second blessing.  Also they tended to found new denominations.  Mostly, I guess, because no one else would have them.  Anyway, at some point, a couple of generations or so later, their practices started to catch on among non-Pentecostals.  These people bought into the second blessing, baptism of the Spirit thing, with some modificatons, but stayed in their own denominations, and spread their understanding there.  They called themselves Charismatics.

Now, there are others who overlap with these people in terms of finding Biblical practices such as prophecy and healing… well, Biblical… Yet these people were never part of the Charismatic movement, and distance themselves from a great deal of the teaching and practice of that movement.  For example, they may not at all buy into the baptism of the Spirit thing à la the Charismatic movement.

So what do you call these people, who don’t self-identify as Charismatic, but are not Cessationist?  Well, Continuationist works well for me.  And that’s what I am.  (As if you haven’t already figured that out from our blog title.)

I understand that in part two you are going to refer to “Continuationism,” and you say “all Charismatics are Continuationists.”  And you should have said “not all Continuationists are Charismatics.”  But you didn’t; you said, “all continuationists, properly speaking, are charismatics (even if you must use a small ‘c’).”

Now, Michael, you had been going pretty well there, until then.  Maybe you can correct it on the next reprint.  (heh, heh, I know it’s an e-book…)

Look at it this way.  I hear a lot of people misuse the term “dispensationalist” as if it meant “cessationist.”  Now some people even think all dispensationalists are cessationists, which is also wrong.  But what if I decided, well, doggone it, I’m just going to use the word that way anyway.  So I say something like, “all cessationists, properly speaking are dispensationalists (even if you must use a small ‘d’).”  I mean, it does nothing, really, to the other guy, but it sure makes me look uninformed.  Just sayin’, Michael.

Nevertheless, I realize this is a bit unfair, since you’ve already written all your posts.  So anyway, I’ll read “Continuationist” when you say “Charismatic.”  But I might bring it up again.  Probably will.

2. The next word I want to bring up is “normative.”  That’s a great one.  I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone use it except a Cessationist (and by the way, I should disclose, I used to be one).  What does it even mean, anyway?  Does it mean the same as normal?  I google it, and I still can’t find anything that really fits in this context.  It’s simultaneously kind of an empty word and a loaded word.  Now, that’s hard to pull off.

Does it mean “something everyone should expect in his or her Christian life?”  I guess that would mean pastoring a church is not “normative.”  Does it mean when you see it happening, you don’t have to automatically assume it’s fake?  Well, I guess not, because you seem to believe in divine healing, and yet wouldn’t exactly call it “normative.”  Does it mean something God intended for the Church to be engaged in throughout the Church age?  Well, I think we’re getting somewhere with this one, but there certainly seem to have been ebbs and flows in history, for whatever reason. 

There was a period of time when for some centuries Israel had no prophets.  Does that mean prophecy wasn’t normative for Israel?  Or should we really describe historical oddities in a different way? 

3.  I love it that you define some gifts as ordinary and others as extra-ordinary.  Hey, here’s a question for you:  are the extra-ordinary gifts normative?  Heh, heh.  You picking up a hint of circularity there, Michael?  You practically say a Charismatic is one who believes the extra-ordinary is normative.  It’s kind of like saying X is someone who belives you can see the invisible or hear the inaudible.  It’s a great schtick, really it is, Michael. 

Only, yeah, you’re really begging the question by this “extra-ordinary” business.  It prejudices the discussion.  Similar ways to treat this are to refer to these as “dramatic” or “spectacular.”

The fact is, you’ve gotten yourself latched onto a faulty idea from the start.  Yes, God’s acts in our lives do often commend themselves as being of divine origin, unexplainable otherwise.  They do in fact, in a sense, make the invisible visible.  They call attention to the reality of God, his eternal power and divine nature, and such.  That is, they bring glory to him.  Yet what has that effect on someone maybe very, very ordinary.  It ought to be the case when looking at the starry sky, for example.  It’s something we experience when prayers are answered, divine timing, that sort of thing. 

But these aren’t characteristic of prophecy on the one hand and not of teaching on the other.  Or healing, but not encouragement.  When any of these are done in the power of the Holy Spirit, the extra-0rdinary, i.e. divine and not merely human, heavenly and not merely mundane, nature of these acts commend themselves.

4.  That brings us to supernatural.  Honestly, Michael, you are a teacher.  I suppose you avow the gift of teaching.  Anyway, I guess you see it as “normative.”  Yet it is not supernatural?

My goodness, your very faith is the gift of God given to you through the Spirit.  You can’t even believe in Christ apart from a supernatural act of God.  Cessationists are fond of saying conversion is the greatest miracle of all.  And so it is.  Yet, beyond that the obvious point goes missing.  Your ability to analyze, to express yourself, to persuade may all be “natural” abilities, but when you teach in the Body of Christ–I mean if you’re doing it right–you are exercizing the power of God through you.  Read Acts 1:8 for goodness sake. 

Michael there are no non-supernatural gifts of the Spirit, none.  To make that distinction for the so-called sign gifts is simply a failure to properly grasp what God is doing through his Body the Church.

5.  So let’s talk about “sign gifts.”  This is something of a personal bête noir for me.  I have a particular post just on that term.  I don’t need to repeat myself, or my other recent post on Heb. 2:3-4, but that verse states that God co-testifies to the gospel by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.  It doesn’t say sign gifts, some gifts or the extra-ordinary, non-normative, spectacular, or dramatic gifts.  In fact, it says through signs, wonders, various miracles AND gifts of the Holy Spirit.  May we not understand from the Word of God that any gift ministered by the Holy Spirit functions as God’s witness to salvation in Christ?

6.  I won’t  take issue with your definition of Cessationist.  You lay out some particular claims made by this perspective.  You make a lot of distinctions, categories, lists to help define this camp.  I’m sorry, Michael, but I find this truly a house of cards: revelatory, confirmatory, temporary, permanent. (Egad, there’s that monstrosity “pastor-teacher.” Don’t get me started!)  Ever feel your boxes are a tad artificial?  Hey, I don’t think your charts are normative.

Essentially, by your own description, you say Cessationists are those who make the following assertions:

a.  Certain spiritual gifts serve to (and have the purpose of) confirming the gospel, while others don’t.  [I’ve already spoken to this one.]

b.  There is no other (primary/significant) reason for these confirmatory gifts to exist apart from this purpose.

c.  The close of the Canon makes this sole purpose of these confirmatory gifts obsolete.

d.  Since they are obsolete, we know that God no longer performs them through His church.

But, Michael, there is not a single one of these propositions that is taught in the Bible.

Yet the ongoing Spirit-empowered ministry of the Body of Christ is present all through the New Testament:  The Upper Room Discourse (John 14-16), Acts, Rom. 12, 1 Cor. 12-14, Gal. 3:5, Heb. 2:3-4, and so on.

It’s there, but it’s obsolete, and should be understood to be such?  Is it like the Constitution of the U.S. the text of which still refers to senators as chosen by state legislatures, and still contains language about that deplorable 3/5 compromise?  Only we know when we read them they are no longer in force? 

So where are the amendments to the the New Testament, Michael?  Cessationists seem to be those who proclaim phantom amendments to our Church Constitution. 

All Continuationists are really saying is, old orders are good orders.

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Posted in cessationism, charismatic, continuationism, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Michael Patton, sign gifts

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Surprised by the Power of the Spirit – Book Review

Posted on May 18, 2010 by | 6 comments

by Scott

A few decades back, there were not many solid biblical and theological resources available on the Holy Spirit from a more charismatic or Pentecostal (or continuationist) perspective. But such has drastically changed in the past few decades with a plethora of resources on continuationism now available to Christians. Here is a short but solid list at my co-authored blog, To Be Continued.

One such continuationist theologian is Jack Deere with his book, Surprised by the Power of the Spirit. He also has authored Surprised by the Voice of God, which I hope to dip into one day in the near future.

Deere is an interesting case, and you will see this in the book as he shares his own story. He had been an associate professor of Old Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary (from now on DTS), which has been known for its cessationist position throughout the years. But, as Deere shares his story of moving from cessationism to continuationism, he tells of a phone call that changed his life forever. This phone call set into motion a chain of events that left him convinced that the Holy Spirit and all of His gifts are still available to body of Christ today.

In the end, Deere had to leave DTS, as his new found continuationist beliefs did not allow for him to stay within the confession of faith of the seminary. From reading the book, you get the sense that the parting of ways was not nasty, but I’m sure it was not easy for either sides – Deere or DTS. My colleague here at To Be Continued, Marv, can share more insightful thoughts about Jack Deere, as he had Deere as a professor at DTS and was also part of the Vineyard movement of which Jack Deere was also a part of as he worked closely with founder John Wimber for a time. But it seemed the parting of ways with the seminary was done respectfully, and I say that because I did not sense any animosity from Deere in the book, which is a great plus.

One of the things I liked about the book was that it included storied accounts throughout the book – Deere’s transition to continuationism and practical examples of the charismata of the Spirit in his own life and others. It wasn’t just theology. For me, I don’t need the theology. I am convinced of continuationism. Instead, I like to be encouraged with accounts of God’s power at work through the Spirit amongst the body of Christ. That is what stirs me most.

Still, for those who are unsure of the continuation of all spiritual gifts, or who may even be antagonistic to such, the theology in the book is solid, looking to be grounded first and foremost in Scripture. Thus, I think it worth a read for any continuationist or cessationist that is looking to faithfully interact with a continuationist perspective of Scripture.

A warning for someone who is more cessationist: I am confident you will find statements that you will not like. What I mean is that, at times, Deere does not butter things up. There are times when he makes very poignant and honest statements. I believe he feels he can make such statements because he was once a cessationist and can address what he sees as ‘holes’ in the cessationist view. I don’t say this in some ad hominem way, as I am aware there are some who have moved from continuationism to cessationism. Still, there are times when he is forthright with some of the cessationist arguments that I believe fall short of faithfulness to the biblical text.

For example, chapter 5 is entitled, The Real Reason Christians Do Not Believe in the Miraculous Gifts. He shares a few reasons why people do not believe in the miraculous gifts, but he points out one major reason: because they have not seen miracles in their present experience.

That is a major argument for cessationists. And the reverse would probably be true of most continuationists. One reason we believe they still exist is because we believe we have experienced and seen examples of such gifts of the Spirit. Interesting how our experience shapes our theology. We must recognise this. It’s not evil and ungodly. It’s a reality of every Christian (and non-Christian). I share more along these lines in this article and this article.

One of the things I didn’t fully agree with Deere about, which isn’t that major, came from chapter 5. He states that a false assumption of cessationism is believing that the apostle’s healing ministry was the same as the gift of healing. First off, he notes there is an assumption amongst some cessationists that the apostle’s could heal automatically, any time they wanted, at will. But that is far from even the biblical record.

But when Deere refers to the ‘miraculous gifts’, he is not just speaking of healings or miracles, but the nine gifts associated with 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. And because this text, and others, make it clear that these are distributed to the whole body of Christ, he would look to differentiate between the apostle’s ministry in these gifts and the body of Christ’s ministry. He specifically states:

‘The third thing I discovered is that, taken as a whole, the apostles are presented by the New Testament as the most gifted individuals within the church. Although I am sure the apostles received charismata, just as others in the body of Christ, the New Testament never describes their healing ministries with the term charisma. The miraculous ministry of the apostles is designated by the phrase signs and wonders.’ (p69, italics his)

This could simply be a case of appealing to silence, meaning that something must be true because the opposite is never stated in Scripture (hence, there is silence on the matter). Thus, because the Greek word, charismata, is never used in connection with the use of the miraculous gifts amongst the apostles, then their use of such must have been a different category. Again, I’m not sure this fully holds up.

Still, another problem is that non-apostles like Stephen and Philip were used in such miraculous ministries described as ‘signs and wonders’. See Acts 6:8 and 8:4-8. I would not exclude ‘signs and wonders’ from those who were not apostles. And I wouldn’t try and dichotomise the miracles and healings of the ‘normal’ body of Christ from the signs and wonders of the apostles. I don’t think it’s fully sustainable.

Another example is that Paul tells us he speaks in tongues more than all of the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 14:18). And, remember, Deere groups all nine gifts from 1 Corinthians 12 into the ‘miraculous gifts’ (see p68). But his argument is that the apostle’s use of these gifts is more connected to ‘signs and wonders’. Yet, within the Corinthians context, is Paul’s use of tongues that which is for the whole body, or that which is just for apostles, or both? Well, tongues can be utilised as a sign itself (see 1 Corinthians 14:20-25, though this passage has caused much discussion). So, I’m still not sure such a distinction holds up. But, in the end, this is not of huge consequence to the belief in and utilisation of all the gifts of the Spirit. Moving on…

Not only is the book a theological resource for a case for continuationism, but it is also a very practical help at times. Not just with storied accounts of healings or prophecies or words of knowledge, though those give great encouragement, but also with counsel and wisdom in regards to seeking God and the work of His Spirit, even within churches that are cautious or in cases where one would like to encourage their leadership to be open to these gifts.

The final thing I would like to point out is that, in his Appendix B, Deere takes time to address the issue of the existence of apostles today. Most who know me will know that I am an advocate for present-day apostles. I have written plenty in a series on this topic, of which I still have 2 or 3 more articles I would like to post. I also have preached on this topic before – you can download the messages by clicking here.

So I was interested to read his thoughts on apostles today. And, actually, Deere is not closed to the idea of present-day apostles. As a summary to the Appendix, he pens these words:

‘I do not know of anyone today whom I would want to call an apostle in the same sense that I would call Paul an apostle. I am not willing, however, to rule out this possibility, because I do not think the Scriptures rule it out.’ (p275)

This is where the discussion gets down to the nitty-gritty. If apostles exist, are they in the same vein of a Paul, John, Peter, etc? Or are they ‘lesser-than’ apostles? I believe apostles exist today. Would I say they have the same ministry-anointing as Paul? Not really. But I still believe apostles are people of authority, of revelation, who are foundation builders-layers, and who help equip the body of Christ in varying ways, helping us be an apostolic (sent out, mission-minded) people.

For those ‘on the fence’ with regards to the continuation of all the gifts of the Spirit for today, these thoughts on apostles today might cause one to immediately reject Jack Deere as a viable source to consider. But such should not be the case. This work is a solid biblical and theological case for contiunuationism, even if one rejects the idea of apostles today.

Deere is faithful to not only address the cessationist perspective on particular passages of Scripture and theology, but more importantly he is faithful to present a positive, biblical-theological case for continuationism. Hence, it’s not written as a slap to cessationists. Rather it is a signpost pointing to the ‘charismatic’ work of the Spirit amongst God’s people in this present age. Such was one major purpose of Pentecost.

Therefore, I recommend that continuationist, cessationist, and everyone in between look to interact with this book as they think through the validity of the continuing work of the Spirit in all his varying gifts for the body of Christ.

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Posted in books, cessationism, charismatic, continuationism, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Jack Deere, resource

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Who Are the Ones Gifted by the Holy Spirit?

Posted on May 4, 2010 by | Leave a comment

by Scott

There was a recent article posted over at the Gospel Coalition on the gifts of the Spirit being given to all God’s people. The author of the article, Juan Sanchez, states:

Paul continues to undermine the basis for the boasting of the pneumatics (i.e., those who think they are spiritual because of the manifestation of spectacular gifts) by reminding them that All who have the Spirit are also gifted with gifts of the Spirit: charismata.

He quotes Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 12:7,11 to show such. Sanchez goes on to exclaim:

In other words, no one has any basis upon which to boast about spiritual giftedness, because each Christian not only has the Spirit but also has spiritual gifts (charismata). This was, after all, part of the promise of the new covenant (Acts 2:39) – that ALL God’s people would manifest the Holy Spirit:

Thus, a challenge, a rather good one, is presented near the end of the article:

So, if you are a Christian, you are gifted by the Spirit for ministry! Do you believe that? If so, then serve! We are not to be consumers; consumerism is contrary to the gospel and contrary to the Spirit’s work in us. May the Lord forgive us for our American evangelical McChurches, where we invite people to “sit back, relax and enjoy the show.”

Click here to read the full article.

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Posted in 1 Corinthians 12, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Holy Spirit

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Should We Pursue Spiritual Gifts? – Sam Storms

Posted on April 27, 2010 by | 3 comments

I thought this was an excellent video in which Sam Storms answers this question: If we believe in the continuation of all spiritual gifts, should we pursue them?

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Posted in Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Sam Storms, video

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Four Positive Scriptures for Continuationism

Posted on April 19, 2010 by | 3 comments

by Scott

In the past, I have addressed four major passages of Scripture that cessationists might typically use to discount the continuation of all gifts of the Spirit following the first century (or sometime there abouts). Those four passages are:

In my article, I specifically showed how I believe these four passages are, often times, misunderstood and misused by cessationists to teach that there was an expectation in the first century that certain gifts (supernatural gifts or miraculous gifts or sign gifts) were to cease as we moved toward the full and faithful teaching of the first apostles now recorded in the New Testament.

I don’t say these words – misunderstood or misused – arrogantly. Yet, I still believe that if we read the passages carefully and fully consider what they are teaching, we will see that none of these four give solid ground for the case of cessationism.

Of course, there are other passages that could be dealt with from a cessationist standpoint (i.e. Ephesians 2:20 – that apostles and prophets were foundation layers and we no longer need a foundation to be laid since it was laid once for all time in the first century). But I decided to mainly focus on those four passages, though I have addressed the Ephesians 2 verse in another article.

But, while, at times, it is good to address how another viewpoint utilises certain passages, it is also quite healthy to lay out Scripture passages that would support one’s own specific view. So we don’t just take up the ‘polemical approach’ or addressing what we consider wrong, but we also take up the ‘apologetic approach’ in confirming what is true.

I’m not talking about moulding passages to fit our view, though it is easy to fall into that trap here and there (and I’m sure I could be accused with the form four passages and what I will address in just a moment in this post). But we can’t just defend against another view. We have to make sure Scripture actually teaches what we believe it teaches.

Thus, there are four major passages I would like to point out that I believe give a positive case for the existence of all spiritual gifts from Christ’s first advent to second advent. Those four passages are:

John 14:12

These words in John 14 are well-known, at least to most charismatics and Pentecostals:

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

I don’t want to spend an immense time on this passage, as my partner in crime, Marv, has done fine exegesis on it here. But I will share a few of my own thoughts.

I know that for many, this passage can merely be put down to talking about doing more evangelism, reaching more people than the one Christ could in His incarnation. And while I absolutely support such a notion, I would argue that to say it only speaks of that is a bit reductionistic. It misses the bigger picture

I believe this statement entails all of the works of Christ. He simply meant it that way. I love the first words of Luke in Acts 1:1:

In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach.

Christ, in His incarnation, had only begun to do and to teach. There was a lot more work to accomplish. A lot more! Hence, the Father and Son had this great plan to send the Spirit to indwell all of God’s people to empower them to do the works that Jesus did. It’s absolutely astounding that Christ Himself would want His body, in the power of His Spirit, to continue the works He did.

Of course, this is not limited to gifts of the Spirit as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. Nor is this just about miracles and healings. It is about that. But not only about that, just as it was not only about evangelism.

And Jesus said these wonderful words, ‘whoever believes in me’. That’s challenging, but a good challenge for us who are believers. The works of Jesus, in all their variety, which includes miracles and healings and prophecy, are available to the Spirit-indwelt and Spirit-empowered body of Christ. There is no denying this or reducing this. All of the works of Christ are available to all of the body of Christ, not just the spiritually elite nor the spiritually elite of 1900 years ago.

Acts 2:17-18

I love Acts 2:17-18, where, at Pentecost, Peter quotes Joel’s prophetic words from centuries before:

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

After the Spirit had fallen on the 120 like never seen or known before, Peter has a revelation: This is the fulfilment of Joel’s words spoken so long ago. Joel said that, in the last days, God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh. This was happening right in front of eyes and ears as these tongues of fire descend and these new tongues are spoken.

The last days had just been initiated way back then. This was not to be some few final years of planet earth. The last days began some 1977 years ago at that great Pentecost.

What was the fruit of this outpouring?

That God’s people would become of prophetic community. Oh sure, God would continue to have those specifically gifted as prophets (1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11; etc). But from now on, during the last days of the Messianic age when Messiah would reign over all heaven and earth, God’s Spirit would allow all of God’s people to be utlitised in the prophetic. Moses had longed for it (Numbers 11:24-30), but this was the beginning of the prophethood of all believers, as I’ve written about before.

This work of the Spirit would break all gender barriers and age barriers: sons and daughters; young men and old men; male servants and female servants.

Because the last days are the entire age from Pentecost onwards (or we might technically say first advent of Christ to second advent), we must expect God’s people to always function as a prophetic community. This includes revelations, prophecies, visions, dreams, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, etc. None of this has to be leather bound and added to the New Testament, and thankfully Scripture stands as a measuring stick of whether such prophetic action is truly of God today. But there is no doubt that the last days are to be a continuing work of Jesus by the prophetic Spirit amongst His church in the world.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

For an in depth look at my thoughts on this passage, I would encourage you to read this article. But, suffice it to say, the ‘perfect’ of this passage is not the completed New Testament canon. I believe the New Testament canon is the God-breathed Word. I’m not into backing away from that reality. But the perfect that Paul speaks about in this passage was not the awaiting of the New Testament.

He was awaiting the perfect One, the perfect ending, where we would see ‘face to face’ and we would ‘know fully, even as [we] have been fully known’. This is quite obviously talking about the final consummation of all things when Christ brings the fullness of His kingdom.

Thus, prophecies and tongues and [words of] knowledge (vs8) have not yet been done away with.

Ephesians 4:11-16

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

I’ve personally been doing a very long series for the past few months on apostles today and what all that entails, of which I have posted about 17 articles already over at The Prodigal Thought. You can click here for the first one or do a search on the category sidebar of my blog for ‘apostles’ or ‘apostles today’.

But, at least from the perspective of the ministry of the prophet in this passage, we are told some very helpful information about the enduring nature of that ministry. We are told that Jesus has given these five (or some argue for four) ministries spoken of in Ephesians 4:11 to help equip God’s people to do the work of ministry. They are equippers of the body so that the body can get on with the work of Christ. And I wonder what work(s) Paul had in mind? Possibly the works of Christ, going back to John 14:12.

But vs13 of Ephesians 4 is very important here. It tells us about the duration of these gifts: until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Well, I think everyone could easily agree that we are not there yet. The word ‘until’ denotes we are headed that way. But we all know we have not reached the point. And we might not be as far along as we had hoped after 1900 years.

Hence, Jesus still gives all five of these ministries. Not just shepherds or evangelists or teachers, though they provide a necessary part. But all five to help equip us and prepare us to move towards the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God. Prophets (and apostles also) are still needed. Again, it doesn’t mean we are to add a new book to the Bible and call it 2 Romans or 1 Chicago. But we need their ministry to help equip us. And prophets will be very helpful in seeing the body formed into the prophetic community we have been called to, for Joel (and Peter) prophesied of the prophetic community of this new covenant age.

Therefore, I believe this ministry is absolutely vital until we reach that place of unity in the faith and become mature, reaching the full stature of Christ. I would even argue that we would be found somewhat lacking if we do not allow for this ministry in our midst, just as we would be found lacking without shepherds, teachers and evangelists.

Thus, these are four very strong passages that have helped me realise that Jesus still desires that all the gifts be utilised in the present age as He reigns at the right hand of the Father. I don’t want to put my eggs solely in the basket of miracles, healings, prophecy, tongues, etc. But I do want those gifts to be a few of the eggs that go in the ‘full basket’ of what Christ has called His body to by the empowering of the Spirit.

All I can say is this provides for both an exciting and challenging move forward in seeing the kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. I’m up for such an exciting challenge.

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Posted in cessationism, continuationism, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, Holy Spirit, pneumatology

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