Tag Archives: prophecy

“Charismatics are wrong ‘cuz it never happened to me” …and Other Stupid Statements. (Response to CMP, part 3)

Posted on June 8, 2010 by | 35 comments

By Marv

This post is part of a series responding to C. Michael Patton’s eight-part series at Parchment and Pen “Why I am Not Charismatic,” which is also conveniently available for download as a single e-book here. This is in response to part three.

Michael,

First, please don’t take the title too seriously.  It is, as you might suspect, an hommage to your own provocatively titled series, last seen here.  Besides, you start your part three by admitting that its argument is (a) not a very good one and yet (b) one that works for you.

I appreciate the irony though.  In certain circles it is Self-Evident Truth that Continuationists (a) follow experience over Scripture, and (b) are doing that “evil and adulterous generation” sign-seeking thing (Matt. 12:39; 16:4).  Yet here you tell us, first, that while the preponderance of Scriptural evidence backs Continuationism, you remain a Cessationist due to your experience.  Then, second, you demand a sign, failing which, you remain a (de facto) Cessationist.  It’s refreshing, to say the least.

With that introduction, here are a few thoughts on your part three.

1.  You are “open” Biblically and theologically to Continuationism.

The other day I heard somebody on the radio giving the usual condescending admonition to Continuationists always to give Scripture priority over experience.  This same guy kept making reference to “the four sign gifts.”  It was the first time I’d heard these given a definite number.  (Does that mean tongues has ceased but interpretation of tongues continues?)  I’d really like for him to put his money where his mouth is and show me the Bible passage teaching “the four sign gifts.”

Be that as it may, of course Scripture is the only infallible rule of faith and practice.  Michael, you pointed out some strong Biblical support for Continuationism in your part two.  As Scott has observed, you did seem to leave out Christ’s own teaching on the eve of his crucifixion (John 14-16).  This, I submit, is the place to start, and really leaves no doubt that the Father’s plan, the Lord’s instruction, and the believer’s expectation should be:

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

So, Michael, if the Bible teaches something, if Christ teaches something, what kind of response is it to be “open” to it?  Try saying, “I’m open to that salvation-by-grace-through-faith thing, but I’ve never had a genuine gospel experience.”  The apostle Paul tells us to: “Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.” (1 Cor. 14:1) I mean, you don’t suppose “be open to” is an adequate translation of zeloute here?

What I am trying to say, Michael, is that as far as you’ve come from your previous self-confessed bias against Continuationism, if the Bible supports it, then why not move beyond “openness”?  Your lack of experience, I suggest, is in part due to lack of conviction that the Bible really teaches this.  What you see depends on what you expect to see.

POLICE INSPECTOR: “By George! How ever did you see that?”
HOLMES:  “Because I looked for it.”

2. Your expectations.

So what are you looking for, Michael?  May I suggest, based on some of your remarks, that you may have spent some time barking up the wrong proverbial tree?

First, as odd as it seems there is a whole preconceived notion about just what a “gift” is that may need rethinking.  You remark:  “I have never witnessed anything that would lead me to believe that someone has, as their gift to the body of Christ, any of the particular gifts…”  Well, if by this you mean some kind of at-will wonder-worker, I don’t think this has ever been the case. 

The concept of “gifts” is a reference to the fact that the works of Jesus, done by the Body of Christ, are distributed among the members.  These are first of all gifts given by the Lord to us, not our gifts to the Body.  Second, I don’t think the Bible teaches us it was like a team of spiritual X-men:  X has the power of prophecy, Y has the power of healing, Z has the power of tongues.  Based on what Paul says, on a given day any believer may give a prophecy, though not all will (1 Cor. 14:26, 31).  It may have been that some people particularly excelled in a particular gift, and so may be associated with it, but I think it is fallacious to understand a rigid one-for-one correspondence.

Second, in regard to prophecy, you refer to “the surrendering of my mind.”  I don’t think that is what New Testament prophecy calls for.  Paul says prophecy gives “upbuilding and encouragement and consolation” (1 Cor. 14:3).  It may instantly resonate with someone (1 Cor. 14:24-25) or else is to be weighed (v. 29). 

As far as requiring a “sign” is concerned, well first, I thought you considered prophecy a “sign gift.”  Isn’t it already a sign, then?  “prophecy is [a sign] not for unbelievers but for believers,” Paul says (1 Cor. 14:22). 

Besides, with all the New Testament teaching on prophecy, and the clear “democratization” of prophecy in Acts 2, you go to Moses for the example of how things are to be done?  Deut. 34:10 states: “And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.”  It might be nice if all who prophesied lived up to Moses example, but I wouldn’t expect this.  Is this really reasonable?

Also (and I just love it when Cessationists tell Continuationists how spiritual gifts ought to work) you opine:

If someone claims to speak on behalf of God—if someone claims to have a prophetic gift—you have every right and obligation to demand an attesting sign. As well, if you think you are a prophet—if you sincerely believe that God has called you to such a ministry—you need to tell God that you cannot do so without such a sign.

Okaaay, kids, always remember to talk back to God.  Umm, Michael,  in the first place, you draw on the example of Moses, whose demand for authenticating sign was not so much a sign of faith, as of reluctance, hesitation, doubt.  God had already given him His word to proclaim, and Moses hemmed and hawed until he ran out of excuses.  Go and do thou likewise?  So say you, Michael?

Second, this whole thing isn’t about anyone’s claim to have this or that gift.  It’s about believers being the Body of Christ, and God giving His words and doing His works through us, as he did through Jesus (John 14:10).   

Furthermore, it isn’t only prophets who speak on behalf of God.  Teachers, such as yourself do. 

As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God.  (1 Pet. 4:10-11)

 

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5:20)

 

Are pastors, teachers, and evangelists also to demand from God a sign, since they too speak on behalf of God?  Well, the good news is, we don’t need to demand, because God has always planned to co-testify as we deliver His message (Heb. 2:4).

In regard to what you say about healing, again, I think you are under a misconception to imagine a “gift of healing” as attached permanently to a particular person.  This is not necessarily what we as Continuationists are saying.  Moreover, your conceptually separating  praying for healing from “gifts of healings” is also missing the point.

But you knew I would say this, didn’t you.  And you head this response off at the pass.  You are told “that’s not the way it works.”  And, of course, you, a Cessationist–never seen it–know better:

If you say, “It’s not like that. God simply uses me sometimes to heal. I never know when he is going to and when he will deny such a request.” I would say that we are simply talking past each other. In my estimation, you do not have the gift of healing. You, like everyone else, simply have the ability to pray for healing, leaving the answer in the hands of God.

 

I agree about the talking past each other here, but, Michael, let me say gently, it might behoove you back up, hold your preconceived notions loosely, and listen to that perspective–there just might be something to learn.

When you begin to learn, you first do not even know what you do not know.  Some things need to be unlearned before learning can take place.

3.  The learning curve.

I don’t say that, or write these posts, claiming vast amounts of knowledge.  Only, it is really is a strange thing when Cessationists are sure they know more about spiritual gifts than Continuationists.  You point out how others aren’t doing it right.  Their prophecy is banal.  Their prayer for healing and any subsequent answers to prayer is not “the gift.”  Well, I agree that the Continuationist side may not be doing everything quite right.  Yet they are believing the Lord’s instructions, and doing something, and mixed results are better than no results. 

The church today largely has to rediscover what has been forgotten.  As with any practice, there is a learning curve.  At one time, these were passed on.  Jesus instructed His disciples how to minister in power, and they taught others.  Well, we haven’t got that now, I grant you. And I am not for an instant suggesting that contemporary Continuationists are infallible guides.  Still, how wise is it to completely disregard these?

So where are we to begin today? To recover what the Scripture teaches but generations have not really practiced?  You begin with the Scriptures, of course.  You begin by being convinced from Scripture that the works that Jesus did ought to be in evidence in the church today. 

But what does this look like?  Prophecy, for example.  How do you do it?  How do you know when it is happening?  Does it feel like something?  Does the prophesier hear a voice?  Audibly?  Inaudibly?  How do you really know it’s God?

I submit, Michael, you won’t know the answers by sitting on the sidelines.  There is hit and miss here, trial and error.  Does that seem little too messy?  Well, what are we supposed to do?  Don’t like the whole glass-half-empty thing?  The Cessationist answer seems to be “I don’t see any New-Testament quality miracles,” so out it all goes. 

What about half full?  How about getting in there and helping?  Don’t quite like the way things look in the Pentecostal, Charismatic, Third-wave, whole Continuationist world? So many of the Bible-scholar, teacher types have retreated into Cessationism, and left others to fend without them.  Is there a lack of balance in Continationism?  Whose fault is that?  Those who are in the game or those who are not?  For my money, I’d point a finger or two at the armchair quarterbacks.

4.  Get in the game.

So what we’re talking about here is you’ve never had a “genuine charismatic experience.”  Well, okay, you used to go to a “third-wave” college.  These days, do you ever put yourself in an environment where you might just have such an experience?

I was going to point out, if you were not already aware, that you have a fabulous opportunity in Sam Storms having moved to Oklahoma City.  Then of course I saw here that he’s now on Theology Unplugged.  Okay, so you two have met.

Still, my point is Credo House is what, 3-1/2 miles from Bridgeway Church?  Dr. Storms is, as you know, top notch in Bible exposition and theology.  And I doubt you can find a better go-to-guy for Continuationism–in these United States, anyway.  I believe Dr. Storms was not in town when you wrote this series last year.  So okay.  Now, however, you have no excuse.

35 Comments

Posted in 1 Corinthians 14, cessationism, charismatic, church, continuationism, experience, Gifts, Gifts of the Spirit, God speaking, healings, John 13-17, Michael Patton, prophecy, Sam Storms, sign gifts

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The Prophetic Body of Christ

Posted on May 23, 2010 by | 7 comments

by Scott

The gift of prophecy is not some arbitrary gift given to the church so that we can sound super-spiritual and have goose-bump experiences. The gift of prophecy is given for a reason, for a purpose.

There is one major practical reason that prophecy is given to the church, which is stated this way by Paul:

On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. (1 Corinthians 14:3)

Prophecy will bear fruit when it is spoken – fruit that will bring edification, encouragement-exhortation, and comfort. It might also challenge, but that challenge, if heeded as God’s word, will still stir these three characteristics in the life of the believer. It can cause a fog to clear, despair turn to hope, deep worry resolve to peace, and much more.

But, while this is a major outcome of Spirit-directed prophecies, there is still yet a greater reason as to why prophecy is still given to the church today. This might sound over simplified, but it breaks down into these 3 points:

  • As the very Word of God, Jesus was and is the great prophet of human history.
  • The Holy Spirit was sent in His stead to continue the work of Jesus, including His prophetic work.
  • The Holy Spirit is given to the church so that they may be all of Christ in the world today, even the prophetic Christ.

In a simplified manner, that is how it plays out. Jesus >> Holy Spirit >> Body of Christ.

Jesus is the proto-type of every ministry within the body of Christ, from prophecy to mercy to teaching to shepherding to giving to healings to whatever ministry might come forth. Though it might sound somewhat cheesy, we really are called to start with Jesus as to the great example of every ministry made possible to God’s people.

And this is the key to making sure His ministry would continue: Jesus promised to send another Parakletos in His name, even the Spirit of God. That was the plan way back when.

I have always loved these words of Jesus:

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. (John 16:7)

It was to our advantage that Jesus went back to the Father? Huh?

Yes, for in doing so He could send the Spirit that could now indwell and empower the whole body of Christ, not just a few select individuals. This was the cry of Moses centuries before Christ stepped onto the scene and promised His Spirit:

Would that all the LORD’s people were prophets, that the LORD would put his Spirit on them! (Numbers 11:29)

And, so, when the Spirit was poured out on all flesh – male and female, young and old – this was what the ‘special’ prophets had been longing for and what THE prophet had promised. Peter has a revelation himself at Pentecost that what they were viewing and hearing was a fulfilment of the words of the great prophet, Joel:

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:17-18; from Joel 2:28-29)

The very Word-of-God-become-flesh promised to the give the very Spirit of God to His people. What a fantastic idea! For how could the body of Christ actually be Christ without His Spirit? How could we be Christ to one another and a hurting world if we did not have His indwelling and empowering Spirit? Well, we simply could not.

And, if the very Spirit of God was given by Christ to His church, would He expect anything less than for us to continue in all the varying ministries He Himself walked in? I cannot imagine such. The very Spirit of God who empowered the incarnate, fully human Son was also given to empower the current incarnate Christ in His fully human body, if you will. The hundreds of millions that make up Christ’s body today are Christ incarnate today. That’s exactly how He meant it. And Jesus knew that the best way to help us be Him in the world is to give us the same Spirit that empowered Him as a human man.

It truly is a marvellous plan.

So, in a much bigger sense, the gift of prophecy, while it is a blessing to us and we are strengthened by it, is given that we might continue the full work of Christ. And, again, every single ministry gift given has been given so that we might continue in the full work of Christ.

Thus, we find in this one of the main purposes of the Spirit of God being given to His church. It would not just be fine and dandy for Christ to charge us to continue His work without supplying and equipping us with His Spirit. We would have failed pretty miserably (though sometimes we do in the midst of such a provision). So, as the Father sent the Son, the Son now sends the Spirit. Quite a team.

This was to our advantage because, as a human-incarnate man, Jesus was only able to do so much by Himself. He touched many lives, but it was still limited as a human. But He knew that, as the exalted Christ, He could send His Spirit to empower literally billions down through the centuries to finish what He started.

This stirs me even now to complete His work, to catch the prophetic heart of Christ as I gather with the saints, have conversation with friends, and meet with the varying peoples that God brings into contact in my life. To have an ear attuned to what He might say, to speak it forth, and see it come as a kind of two-edge sword into the lives of people. This is a privilege.

But more than that one moment, we start to the get the sense that we are participating in something far larger than our tiny selves. We are walking out the very ministry of the Lord of heaven and earth. And, in doing so, we can be certain that we will see and taste the fruit of edification, encouragement, exhortation and comfort in the midst of prophecy. And that fruit will taste very sweet.

So, let us keep in mind that Christ has and always will desire that His body be a prophetic people. No gender barriers, no age barriers allowed, a true reality of the age of the Spirit. And we can, by the Spirit of God, speak forth the words of God that call people to be drawn in to the bigger purposes of God, the redemptive purposes of the kingdom of God. This stirs me deeply.

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Posted in body of Christ, church, Holy Spirit, Jesus, prophecy

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An Example of Hearing God’s Voice

Posted on May 2, 2010 by | 4 comments

by Scott

In the past, I posted an article giving an everyday example of prophecy – God revealing or unveiling something, even if it’s not in Scripture, but not contradicting Scripture. And this is all done for exhortation, encouragement and the building up of the body of Christ. Sometimes it’s hard to bring prophecy ‘out of the clouds’ and make it part of real life, for I believe God wants these things to be a part of our lives, not just super-spiritual gatherings. So it’s good to get a real-life, down-to-earth example.

I also recently posted an article of how God specifically spoke to me to help guide my praying for our neighbours. You can read it here. But, in this article, I wanted to post an example of hearing God’s voice today.

These past couple of weeks, I’ve been reading through a book by John and Stasi Eldredge called Love & War, a book about marriage. I like the Eldredge’s and their understanding of the role of the male and the role of the female, and now they have shared some thoughts on marriage. I am not going to give any kind of review on the book right now. But rather I wanted to share something I read the other night, an example of God speaking, God revealing His heart in the present day.

So here it is…

I [John] gave a talk on learning to hear the voice of God to a group of youth pastors. Afterward there was a book signing. I’m standing at my table – feeling a little bit like some guy selling Florida swampland – hoping that I don’t stand here and no one comes up when a man finally approached the table. “I don’t need a book signed,” he says. I try to keep a smile like it’s no big deal and I say, “That’s okay,” but he goes right on to say, “But I wanted to tell you a story.” “I’d love to hear it.” He looks right and left, sort of like You’re not gonna believe this. “So, I’m sitting there listening to your talk, and not real sure what I think about the whole thing. Then you invite us to listen to God.” I nod, eager to hear what happened for him, but also sort of dreading that nothing happened and he’s here to tell me God doesn’t speak to him. Too many dear souls have come to that conclusion because of a bad experience, or because no one has helped them learn to hear.

“Look, I’m not a mystic,” he says.

I smile but I’m thinking, Since when did hearing God’s voice become something reserved for mystics?

“But I decided to give it a try,” he continues. “So, I quiet down and just sit there. After a minute or so I asked God, What do you want to say to me? And what I hear is this: Take Janet to St. John.” “Janet’s my wife,” he explains, and I think, Well that’s a relief. “We’ve been wanting to take a trip together for a long time but we haven’t been able to pull it off. Anyhow, that’s what I hear – Take Janet to St. John.”

I’m thinking that’s the end of the story, so I say, “Well, she’s going to be delighted to heart that!”

He says, “No – the story’s not over.”

“After you end the talk everybody’s getting up to go to lunch. I turn to the guy next to me – we didn’t come together or anything – and tell him, ‘God told me to take my wife to St. John.'”

The way he tells this part of the story is sort of in a spirit of, Yeah right – Can you believe it? What am I supposed to do with that? I simply listen.

“And this guys says to me, ‘Well. I have been holding two tickets to St. John for a year, and God has told me they are not for me, that I’m to give them to someone else. So, there you go. I have your tickets.'”

Needless to say, Mr. I’m-Not-Much-of-a-Mystic became a believer in hearing the voice of God.

And you know what? This is actually pretty normal for the Christian life. Over the years we’ve heard a jigawillion stories like that. Ordinary folks, learning to listen for the voice of God and how he blesses them for doing so. God loves to speak, he loves to surprise us, and he has hundreds of adventures in store.

So – ask him.

End of excerpt.

Very beautiful. A man who was not open to the Spirit of God speaking today gets spoken to and has it confirmed immediately. Beautiful.

Now, Eldredge (and possibly most of these youth pastors, though I don’t know) is no self-pr0claimed charismatic or Pentecostal or Third Wave or whatever. He is simply a guy reaching out to other guys, his wife reaching out to other women, and he has become convinced of the reality that God still speaks today.

And this story is a very simple story. The man who heard God speak for the first time was not glorified. The other man with the tickets to St. John was not being glorified. John Eldredge was not even trying to glorify himself. But God was at work, drawing one of His sons into the inheritance of hearing His voice.

God is that good.

Just as a side note, please don’t think Eldredge and this story is somehow being used to proclaim an extreme prosperity gospel because God spoke about a holiday to St. John. I suppose that in the larger picture, this was one way God wanted to reveal His Father-heart to the man, and it was specifically for that man. I, too, have a story of God’s provision for my family to head to the Canary Islands for a week’s holiday this coming summer. And God wants to bless His children. But we have to be careful in embracing an over-the-top prosperity gospel. So, just making sure that is clear.

This is a clear, yet down-to-earth, example of God speaking today.

And, you know what, this is also an example of experience shaping theology. I’ve shared about this before, that it’s ok to recognise that our experience shapes our theology. God is not bothered by this, so we should not be. Now, of course, our experience is not the only thing that informs our theology. And it’s not even the foremost factor. But it is a reality and we need to both remember this and accept it.

Read the Scripture. Every single person’s theology was shaped by their experience with the living God. Every single one.

And so, in this example from Eldredge’s book, this one man shifted from a place of not believing that God speaks today (or being very cautious about it) to a place of truly believing that God does speak. And it wasn’t even in the midst of a ‘Thus saith the Lord’ statement. It was very simple, but very direct, and in this situation, His voice was confirmed immediately by another brother. Beautiful. And biblical.

But you know what. I really believe this happens more often than we think. Not just with charismatics and Pentecostals, though maybe more for those who are continually looking for and listening for God to speak (remember Eldredge is not charismatic or Pentecostal, per se). But I believe even the cessationist (or cautious continuationist) can give testimony to the reality of God’s voice. There might be a carefulness in labelling it as ‘revelation from God’ or ‘ hearing the voice of God speaking’. But the terminology matters less in the bigger scheme of things.

Of course, I would say it is God’s voice, and thus, His revelation. But, in the end, this stuff happens regularly for the sons and daughters of God. Yes, I will even go so far as to say this is normative, part of the normal Christian life.

It’s not to create a two-tier of have’s and have not’s, of those who hear God’s voice and those who don’t. It’s just to encourage us of the availability of God’s voice in everyday life. He is constantly revealing Himself. He never stopped and He won’t ever stop until the consummation of all things (1 Corinthians 13:8-12).

It could be through a reflective devotional time, through reading the Scripture, through a walk amongst the beauty of creation, listening to a song, reading a book, a prophetic word from a brother or sister, or a whole plethora of other things. But our Father is just that good – to continue to communicate with us.

None of this is to be contradictory to Scripture, contradictory to the nature of who God is, contradictory to being accountable to the body of Christ and the leaders of our local church. Rather, such will be a blessing as we are seekers of our God who breathed out Scripture, who has shown Himself in those pages, and who has connected us to His body. And this is how God designed it.

So let us be encouraged to draw in to listening. Let us draw into His heart.

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Posted in experience, God speaking, prophecy, revelation, subjectivity

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John 13: Jesus and Prophecy

Posted on March 28, 2010 by | 1 comment

By Marv

Paul tells us: “the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.” (1 Cor. 14:3).  True Christian prophecy, he also stresses, is an act of love (1 Cor. 13:2).

There is no better illustration of all these aspects of prophecy than Jesus’ prophecies to Peter, starting with the one recorded in all four gospels, regarding his betrayal of Jesus.  John reports it this way:

Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward.”  Peter said to him, “Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.”  Jesus answered, “Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times. (John 13:36-38)

On first glance the consolation, the encouragement, the upbuilding, and the love are not readily apparent.  Love, however, is exactly what this exchange is about.

John begins that chapter with a statement that seems to have eluded adequate translation:

Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. (John 13:1)

As the ESV renders it here, it sounds as if it were a chronological point John is making: Jesus continued to love them up to the moment of His death.  With John’s proclivity for multiple meaning of a phrase, it probably includes that idea, but there is far more here.

The NIV captures a different nuance:

“…he now showed them the full extent of his love.”

This has something to commend it, since the word the ESV translates “the end,” telos, indicates not just a stopping point, but the goal, the purpose, completeness, even perfection.  Also the statement does have immediate relevance to what follows: Jesus’ washing of the disciples’ feet (vv. 3-11).  This act of loving service he instructs his disciples to imitate:

If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. (vv. 14-15)

Following in the steps of the Teacher, doing His same works, are of the essence of discipleship, as Jesus indicates here:

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.  (v. 16).

He had made this point before:

A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. (Matt. 10: 24-25)

He most specifically means it in terms of love:

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (vv. 34-35)

So since we are called to love as he loved we must understand more fully John’s point in verse 1 that that Jesus loved his disciples eis telos, “to the end.”  Jesus will make the point explicit shortly afterward in chapter 15:

Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13).

John’s wording here will prove significant: “love” is a rendering of agape, “friends” of philos. Though the distinction between these word groups is frequently overstated, John will later employ the contrast between them in an important way.  At this point in the narrative, though, Jesus is demonstrating agape, “love,” and that eis telos, “to the end.”

John understood what this love meant, as he made clear in his first epistle:

By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers (1 John 3:16).

Peter understood immediately, too, and he was ready to proclaim his love for Jesus:

Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward.” Peter said to him, “Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” (John 13: 36-37)

This was Peter’s prediction, though not by prophecy.  It was the statement of his intent, of the love he felt.  There is no question but that he meant this passionately, but if there was passion he felt, it was another kind of “passion” he feared.  When the Lord’s Passion, His suffering, began, Peter’s courage, his boast failed him.  He failed to love as he had promised.  He failed to find this agape in himself so that he would truly lay down his life.  He felt it there, but did not find it there.  It happened, of course, precisely as Jesus had predicted, for his prediction was true prophecy.

Jesus said of His predictive prophecy:

I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he (John 13:19).

And:

But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes you may remember that I told them to you (John 16:4).

This is exactly what did happen; Peter remembered Jesus’ words when the prophecy was fulfilled:

Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, “I do not know the man.” And immediately the rooster crowed. And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, “Before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly. (Matt. 26:74-75).

Not that he could ever forget those words, but neither did he forget what else Jesus had told him, as Luke records:

Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers (Luke 22:31-32).

Peter’s love failed, his passion failed, his boast failed, but his faith did not fail, because Jesus had prayed for him and prophesied his return.

And so even in the shame of his failure, he ran toward Jesus (even swam toward Him) and not away from Him.

Just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, do you have any fish?” They answered him, “No.” He said to them, “Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in, because of the quantity of fish. That disciple whom Jesus loved therefore said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work, and threw himself into the sea (John 21:4-7).

This brings us to a second prophecy Jesus made to Peter.  He began by dealing with Peter about his failure, and about his boast.

When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” (John 21:15a)

This was precisely a confrontation about his boast to greater love for Jesus than the other disciples, as Matthew recorded it: “Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” (Matt. 26:33).

So John makes it clear that Peter will now no longer make such a boast.  He shows this by very particular wording, Jesus’ question asks about Peter’s love, using the verb agapao.  Peter, however, answers using the verb phileo, which is cognate to the word for “friends” we saw earlier. 

He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love (phileo) you.” (John 21:15b). 

What is John telling us? First, that though Peter did not have the love to die for Jesus, he knew he was one of Jesus’ friends, and that Jesus had the love to die for him.  More to the point here though, Peter would not deny the love he felt for Jesus, though his words admitted not living up to his aspirations.  I think we can capture the force of the exchange with the following paraphrase:

Jesus: “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?”

Peter: “Yes, Lord; you know how I feel about you.”

This exchange happens three times, though with differences each time.  Each time, Jesus recommissions Peter:

  • “Feed my lambs” (v. 15)
  • “Tend my sheep” (v. 16)
  • “Feed my sheep” (v. 17).

 

Moreover, on the third time, Jesus condescends to Peter’s wording and asks His question in terms of Peter’s previous responses, employing the word phileo.  This disturbs Peter greatly.

Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love (phileis) me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (v. 17b)

It is at this point that Jesus pronounces his prophecy:

Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go. (John 21:18)

Peter could have no doubt whatever that Jesus’ prophecy would be fulfilled. In fact, it seems clear that when John wrote these words, Peter had in fact died (by crucifixion we are told by extrabiblical sources) just as Jesus said.

This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God. (v. 19)

What does this all mean?  Jesus was saying he knew Peter’s works: he had a passion for Jesus, yes, but not one that was adequate for the task, though it was a starting point, and evidence of the spirit’s work, to will though not yet to do.  Jesus accepted this reality by accepting Peter’s confession of love (phileo), inadequate though that be.  Yet He promised Peter that He would finish by loving Jesus eis telos (to the end), by having that greater love, because He when that day would come, he would not fail again, but in his own passion in the likeness of Christ’s Passion, he would love Jesus to the end, and bring Him glory.  Jesus was now boasting for Peter, because He Himself would give Peter the power to succeed, to love, to stand firm to the end.

So he consoles, so he upbuilds, so he encourages.  So much so that in days to come when Peter stood again in peril of his life, just after James, John’s brother, had been beheaded as the first apostolic martyr, and Peter was slated for the same fate, he could sleep securely (Acts 12:6).

Peter had encouragement from Jesus prophecy in two ways.  First, if he were to die the next day, it meant success where he had failed before, he would live out in dying, the boast that Jesus had made of him, and this had to be sweetness itself for Peter.

Second though, in this and doubtless in many other perilous situations, Peter knew until that day Jesus had prophesied, he would be indestructible.  Pondering the words of Jesus’ prophecy, he may well have realized he would not die by beheading.  Furthermore, Jesus had said it would happen “…when you are old…”  This event happened in about A.D. 44, and if Peter was roughly Jesus’ age, he was hardly old.  Still one can imagine in any such situation Peter considering any gray hair, what wrinkles he had on his face (talk about interpreting prophecy by looking at head lines!)

Jesus demonstrated His love for Peter most of all by laying down His life for him, but also in building Him up in love, in no small part through the prophecies He gave Him.  And he commands us to love one another as He has loved us.  The author of Hebrews reminds us:

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. (Heb. 10:23-24)

Prophecy does this, as Paul says, as Jesus shows.  Has its purpose, then, passed away?

Not if we believe the Lord, who said of His words and His works (such as prophecy):

The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.  (John 14:10-12)

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What Continues?

Posted on March 23, 2010 by | 13 comments

by Marv

Continuationism is not a wholly satisfactory term.  In some ways I prefer Non-cessationism. However, this latter is a term of negation rather than affirmation, and as such communicates reaction to another view, i.e. it denies cessationism.  So it not only states what it is not rather than what it is, but it grants the initiative to the side it disagrees with, and to a degree lets that side establish the terms of the debate, which may not be helpful.  Continuationism is not totally free from these criticisms, since “continue” is an opposing response to “cease.” Yet, at least it is a positive, affirmative term, as it should be.

Moreover, the term, both terms, imply a complement that may or may not be clearly understood.  With cessationism, there is something that ceases. With continuationism, there is something that continues.  The “something” may not necessarily be the same in both cases.  It certainly does not have to be so for one side simply because the other side defines itself in particular terms.  This is one reason I have objected to the term “sign gifts.”  Some cessationists may hold that what they say has ceased is this category, “sign gifts.”  However, when I use the term continuationist, I am not thereby asserting that “sign gifts” continue, since I find that term problematic.

What then is it that continues?  This post is an attempt to provide an answer and to elaborate on that answer.  The views are my own, though I welcome reaction and input from others.  I see this as a starting place for establishing some definition.  So this statement will surely require refinement and expansion.

Continuationism, then, is the belief that between Christ’s first and second advent He continues His work of glorifying His Father, building His Church, and advancing His Kingdom through the ongoing, vital and dynamic interconnection He maintains with those who are in Him, accomplished through the empowering presence of the Holy Spirit through whom the individual members of His redeemed community are enabled to fulfill the good works prepared for them, such that in interrelation with all the others, the entire community, despite differences of time and place, constitute Christ’s bodily presence on earth during this age.

  1. This reality exists by the Father’s good pleasure, in the Son, and through the Holy Spirit, to the glory of God.
  2. Christ made it clear that the same works that He did in carrying out His mission on earth He expected to be performed through believers, empowered by the Holy Spirit as He had been, starting with Pentecost and continuing to the end of the age when He will return in glory.
  3. The completeness of Christ’s ongoing ministry is a function of the community of those who are in Him, who constitute His Body, while individually each member participates and contributes according to the part assigned to him or her, as the Holy Spirit directs and according to his or her measure of faith.
  4. Christ established a small group of people to establish and found this community, whom He designated His apostles, and each of these in himself seemed to function in completeness of ministry, while non-apostolic members are apportioned aspects of Christ’s ministry, characterized as “gifts.”
  5. Through the apostles and a few individuals closely related to them, the corpus of the New Testament was written through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, forming the completion of Canonical revelation, which together with the Old Testament constitutes the only inerrant and infallible rule of faith and practice for humankind and the Church in particular.
  6. Canonical revelation, that which God chose to inscripturate and establish as the only inerrant and infallible rule of faith and practice, is to be distinguished carefully from God’s other acts of revelation which in His wisdom He has chosen to do throughout history.  He has revealed Himself and continues to reveal Himself in ways both general and specific, whether in imagery, in proposition, perceptibly to the physical senses, or perceptible only to individual cognitive functions, such as memory, dream, or intuition.  This is far from saying that any and all perception or cognition ought to be treated as God’s revelation, whenever it may happen to appear to be such to a particular person.  The standard for evaluation of any purported revelation from God is, as for all other things, the Canonical revelation, the Scriptures, as stated above.
  7. All of God’s revelation and communication is wholly true and free from error.  Human perception, reasoning, and interpretation is fallible, to put it mildly.  Scripture is that which is specifically designated as inspired or God-breathed and so designated God’s very words and recognized by inference as inerrant.  Non-inscripturated prophecy has never been given this guarantee and so requires discernment by those to whom it is spoken, since it entails one or more human act between the Spirit’s act of revelation and the report of that revelation by a person.  In all cases an accurate and complete report of the revelation is expected and required, though never guaranteed as it is with Scripture.  In the Old Testament, the theocratic role of the prophet was matched with severe consequences for inaccurate representation.  The situation in the Church changes with the generalization (“democratization”) of revelation and prophecy inherent in the New Covenant.  Reports of revelation, prophecies, are to be weighed and evaluated within the community.
  8. The Holy Spirit’s work in this age, in Christ’s body has many aspects which together make up a unified whole.  Sanctification, illumination, and empowerment for ministry, along with others, are integral parts of the whole, according to the way God was well pleased to arrange the Body of Christ.  The vital ongoing connection in terms of empowered ministry is variously described as abiding in Christ and bearing fruit, effectual prayer of faith, doing the works of Jesus, spiritual gifts, signs, wonders, and mighty works, and other terms.  Some understanding of these matters may center on specific terms (“spiritual gifts” for example) or draw questionable distinctions (“sign gifts,” or between “gifts of healing(s)” and prayer for healing, for examples) which tend to obscure the holistic nature of the vital, dynamic interconnection with Christ.
  9. God has established this ongoing, vital and dynamic interconnection in His wisdom, in His good pleasure and for His purposes, including confirmation of the gospel message, though there are many others, including encouragement, comfort, conviction, and edification.
  10. The provision of this ongoing interconnection is God’s own intitiative and is wholly within His sovereign control.  How He chooses to manifest it at different times and in different places is His choice to make.  At the same time the recognition of and participation in it by the Church has also varied because of factors within man’s responsibility, such as awareness, understanding, and acceptance. However, none of this means that God has at any time Himself withdrawn His provision for it or no longer wishes it to continue. What indications there are in the Scriptures for its duration is that it is continuous from Pentecost through the Second Advent.

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